PodcastBanklessTom Lee

Why Crypto Keeps Going Up Anyway

The discussion weighs political pressure on the Federal Reserve against the case for Fed independence, while examining how Treasury yields, inflation, infrastructure investment, and AI spending are shaping capital costs. It also focuses on crypto's regulatory and technological infrastructure, including tokenized stocks, privacy products, derivatives access, and institutional adoption. Market participants describe signs of an early crypto bull market, with Zcash strength, Bitcoin's key price bands, and potential token buybacks shaping the outlook. Forecasts include Bitcoin's possible breakout above $80.4K, Tom Lee's S&P 500 target above 8,200, and potential VVV repricing if token consumption continues accelerating.

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Key Takeaways

The episode contrasted Donald Trump's preference for rates of 1% or lower with the FOMC's unanimous decision to raise the federal funds target to 3.75%–4%. Speakers offered competing interpretations of the Fed's conduct—political coordination versus genuine independence—with inflation remaining too high and persistent as the stated rationale for tighter policy.

Higher long-term borrowing costs were linked to both a 10-year Treasury yield above 5% and the possibility that infrastructure investment and AI data-center spending are raising the cost of capital. The discussion also presented Michael How's view that Treasury QE could be more supportive of Main Street than of Wall Street asset prices.

Although the Clarity Act fell 11 votes short of the required supermajority, the SEC and CFTC may still advance crypto rules through exemptive relief, no-action letters, registration pathways, Project Crypto, and rulemaking. Speakers said this route may improve regulatory certainty and could be more defensible against a future hostile administration, even though agency rules are less durable than legislation.

The SEC's innovation exemption was described as a pathway for genuinely one-to-one tokenized stocks—with actual shareholder rights—to trade on public, permissionless blockchains through KYC-enabled and whitelisted venues. Securitize's roughly 30% rally after the announcement reflected the market's preference for this regulated, onshore model over offshore products offering only economic exposure.

Crypto adoption was presented as extending beyond speculative trading: Near was cited for $30 billion in confidential cross-chain transactions and $70 million in total value locked, while S&P Global's acquisition of OpenZeppelin was characterized as evidence that smart-contract infrastructure handling $37 trillion in transferred value is becoming important to traditional finance.

GEO-POLITICS

Trump Rate Pressure — Donald Trump has argued that U.S. interest rates should be 1% or lower because the country is the world's strongest credit, even as the FOMC raised rates. The conflict highlights presidential preferences for easier policy versus the Fed's current rate-setting process.

“He's talking about the FOMC board, but he did say interest rates in the US should be 1% or less because we are the best credit in the world by…”—

TECHNOLOGY

Privacy Adoption — The speaker sees evidence of a recovery in crypto's middle market after earlier weakness in startups and business development. Near is cited as a beneficiary, with $30 billion in confidential cross-chain transactions and $70 million in total value locked indicating measurable adoption of its privacy-oriented products.

“It seems to be that this is we are having a middle of the market recovery in this era of crypto…”—

Tokenized Stock Framework — The SEC's innovation exemption is described as a pathway for genuinely one-to-one tokenized stocks to trade on AMMs and decentralized exchanges operating on public, permissionless blockchains. Those venues would not be treated as traditional exchanges or broker-dealers. The framework requires KYC and whitelisting and remains separate from offshore tokenized stocks inaccessible to U.S. investors.

“This is an exemption for allowing tokenized stocks to trade on AMMs and other dexes on public permissionless blockchains…”—

ECONOMY

Rising Capital Costs — One speaker is uncertain whether rising Treasury yields primarily reflect currency debasement or a hot U.S. economy. An alternative explanation is that infrastructure investment and AI data-center spending are increasing the cost of capital.

“I think there's a question that I've had every week of this bond market war is this more debasement or is this more just a hot economy and cost of…”—

Treasury QE — One speaker says Michael How views the shift from Federal Reserve quantitative easing to Treasury QE as more supportive of Main Street than of Wall Street asset prices. The shift is presented as a potential move toward the real economy.

“He has takes on all of these things and largely he does think that what he calls Treasury QE the regime we're entering is going to be more bullish for…”—

Fed Rate Hike — The Fed funds target rate rose to 3.75%–4% in a unanimous 12–0 FOMC vote. The decision indicates institutional support for the increase despite political pressure for easier policy.

“So, I should say the target rate is now 3.75% to 4% and it was a open FOMC committee vote. Of course, it's who decides these things. 12 to zero…”—

MARKETS

Crypto Bull Pattern — One speaker argues that crypto is showing a classic bull-market pattern: prices respond positively to good news but remain resilient when confronted with bad news. This asymmetric sensitivity is viewed as evidence that the market is in the early stages of a bull market.

“And the reason why is that good news is making prices go up and bad news is not mattering…”—

Zcash Leadership — Zcash reached an all-time high above $1,500 after trading at $1,200 the prior week, showing unusually strong momentum relative to larger blue-chip cryptocurrencies. Its outperformance during the bear market and continued strength are described as abnormal because Bitcoin typically leads early bull phases.

“Zcash alltime highs broke $1,500 and it was just $1,200 last week. So the momentum behind Zcash is just absolutely astounding.”—

Ten-Year Yield — The U.S. 10-year Treasury yield broke above 5%, signaling higher long-term borrowing costs.

“The US 10-year Treasury yield breaks 5%. First time it's done that in a while. I mean, not in forever to be fair, but in a while.”—

FORECASTS

Bitcoin Market Outlook — Bitcoin's key market-structure band is identified as $69.9K to $80.4K, bounded by the 200-day moving average and the 50-week moving average. Holding within the range would leave the market undecided rather than bearish. A sustained break above $80.4K would confirm an early bull market, while a retest of the 200-week moving average could send Bitcoin toward $65,000-$66,000.

“So, if we stay from 69.9K to 80.4K, we stay in that band, we should be good to go. Both those numbers represent moving averages. So 69…”—

Tech-Led S&P Rally — Tom Lee predicts that the S&P 500 could exceed 8,200 by year-end, led by technology stocks, software names, and the Magnificent Seven. The outlook depends on the AI trade remaining intact and recovering from its correction rather than entering a prolonged downturn.

“I think we could easily be above 8,200 by the end of the year. And that's because tech is going to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting…”—

Intro

The hosts interpret resilient prices after rate hikes and failed legislation as early bull-market confirmation, highlighting Bitcoin's $69.9K–$80.4K range, Zcash strength, and recovery among deserving mid-market tokens.

Bull Market Signals: BTC, Zcash & Altcoins

Tom Lee forecasts an S&P 500 finish above 8,200 as technology and AI lead, while the hosts debate rising Treasury yields, infrastructure investment, inflation, and whether debasement or a hot economy explains bond weakness.

Macro: Tom Lee, Bonds & the Fed Hike

The Clarity Act's ethics compromise failed to secure Democratic support, with the hosts arguing that partisan incentives and Trump's earlier conduct—not simply Democratic opposition—ultimately doomed the procedural vote.

Clarity Act Falls Apart

Despite legislative failure, SEC and CFTC officials promise regulatory action, and the SEC's innovation exemption could enable compliant, one-to-one tokenized stocks to trade on decentralized venues.

Regulators Fill the Gap: SEC & Tokenized Stocks

The exemption distinguishes onshore, KYC-compliant tokenized equities from offshore products, preserves shareholder rights, and raises unresolved questions about permissionless blockchains, volume caps, and practical adoption.

The Crypto Options Race

Derivatives platforms are competing to establish crypto options, which may benefit from broader market participation and offer traders defined risk, no liquidation before expiry, and less exposure to platform failures.

Hyperliquid Comes Onshore

Kraken plans to bring Hyperliquid perpetuals to US users through a compliant, permissioned front end, potentially providing regulated access while preserving exposure to Hyperliquid's underlying markets.

Arc Chain Launches

Venice's rapidly accelerating AI token consumption could reprice VVV if value capture remains linked to usage, while the hosts argue that successful buyback and accrual models are needed to restore confidence in crypto tokens.

OpenZeppelin Joins S&P Global

Arc launches amid memecoin activity despite its institutional stablecoin infrastructure ambitions, while S&P Global's OpenZeppelin acquisition symbolizes crypto's growing integration into traditional financial and technology institutions.

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Important Disclaimers

Not Investment Advice: For education only — not financial, tax or legal advice.

AI-Generated: Made by AI from source transcripts and may contain errors.

No Guarantees: Past performance does not predict future results; investing carries risk.

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