PodcastThe Monetary Matters NetworkCharles Lemonides

The Final Phase of This Bull Market Will Be Massive | Charles Lemonides

Lemonides sees room for the bull market to continue, potentially for another two to five years, while expecting its late phase to favor exciting growth companies. He points to opportunities in energy, offshore assets, Intel, and the relative valuations of Lyft and Instacart, while highlighting risks in cyclical memory stocks, Mesabi Trust, and richly valued Caterpillar. He also argues that AI-linked leadership remains narrow and that higher interest rates have yet to slow economic growth.

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Key Takeaways

Lemonides sees Lyft and Instacart as potential value opportunities relative to Uber and DoorDash, respectively, at roughly one-quarter of their competitors’ valuations; he cites their growth and company-specific strengths, while arguing that driver, shopper, and grocery costs limit winner-take-all scale advantages. He also expects Lyft and Instacart shares could double or triple over two to five years, though he does not know when investor fatigue will end and says the gains may not arrive by December.

Lemonides says the bull market could last another two to five years, noting that bull markets often deliver their strongest returns in their final years. He characterizes current industrial and emerging-market outperformance as still narrowly AI-linked, and expects data-center growth to remain strong while the final phase could last six months to three years and favor exciting companies over low-multiple names.

Lemonides sees offshore activity as a multi-year opportunity: he expects increased offshore production to continue for another five to ten years and says tight supply and demand could support substantial cash flows for Tidewater, whose fleet would cost about twice its current price to rebuild. His approach is to build exposure as offshore assets fall to roughly 20%–30% of replacement cost, rather than trying to call the bottom, and to be willing to wait for a turn.

Lemonides says his firm reduced energy holdings after pandemic-era gains but sees a favorable story in the remaining names following their retreat, given high energy prices. He also identifies domestic independent E&Ps as attractive, citing CORD at an $8 billion valuation and roughly three to four times expected cash flow, and Unit’s expected $75 million in cash flow over the next year alongside $100 million in net cash.

TECHNOLOGY

Autonomous Ride-Share — Lemonides expects self-driving Rivian and Tesla vehicles to become widely available. He argues ride-share companies can offer driverless rides through their existing customer networks, while autonomous-driving technology is likely to become a commodity controlled by automakers rather than an exclusive advantage for one company. Established apps’ user bases remain important, and the cost of building vehicles is a barrier for new entrants.

“You know, the Rivians three years from now are going to be pretty darn fully self-driving. The Teslas that that anyone can buy are going to be pretty darn self-driving…”—

ECONOMY

Delayed Rate Effects — Lemonides says rates are being raised to curb an economy he views as growing too fast, but higher rates typically take time to slow growth. Growth had not yet slowed, he says, and there was no indication it would slow within six months.

“No, that's a very good point…”—

MARKETS

Micron Memory Cycle — Lemonides says cyclical memory stocks can be most vulnerable when they appear cheapest, because low multiples may reflect peak earnings. He expects Micron’s earnings to remain at current levels for another couple of years, but is less sure about the stock at its current price than he was two years ago.

“They've always been a cyclical business. And in these cyclical businesses, when it looks the cheapest, that's actually the top. That's peak earnings…”—

Energy Stock Opportunity — Lemonides says his firm scaled back energy holdings after the stocks rose during the pandemic. After their retreat, he sees a favorable story in the remaining energy names, given that energy prices are high.

“We built a big energy exposure during the pandemic and that got to be a very, very big exposure as those stocks exploded to the upside…”—

Lyft And Instacart Valuations — Lemonides argues that Lyft and Instacart may be attractively valued relative to Uber and DoorDash, respectively: each trades at roughly one-quarter of its larger competitor’s valuation. He cites their growth, Lyft’s consistent cash flow, and Instacart’s higher margins than DoorDash as reasons the gap may present an opportunity.

“a leader that is really really richly priced and a secondary company that has been growing every bit as well as the leader but isn't as big for whatever reason…”—

FORECASTS

Bull Market Runway — Lemonides says the market has risen for 18 years without a correction greater than 25%, but he does not consider the bull market necessarily over. Bull markets often deliver their strongest returns in their final years, he argues, and the current cycle could last another two to five years.

“You know, th this market has gone up and to the right without a more than a 25% correction for 18 years.”—

Late-Cycle Leaders — Lemonides expects data-center growth to remain strong and says financial-market excitement will likely center on exciting companies during what he calls the bull market’s final phase. He estimates that phase could last six months to three years; low-multiple, less exciting companies are unlikely to lead a boom.

“Yes. On the other hand, look, the growth is happening in the data center stuff and we don't think it's going to slow down anytime soon…”—

Intel Foundry Upside — Lemonides sees potential upside in Intel’s CPU and foundry businesses. Chip supply is constrained by manufacturing capability, he notes, while Intel is bringing capacity online and improving yields. He says Intel’s improving yields, technology, and position among a small number of manufacturers could produce significant upside torque.

“It's both the CPU trade and the foundry trade for me…”—

Intro

Are We in a Bubble?

Rates Growth and Bonds

Value Investing Reframed

Micron Peak Earnings Debate

Intel Foundry

Sarmaya LENS ETF

Sizing Themes and Diversifying

Undervalued Challengers: Lyft & Instacart

Energy Sector Setup

Portfolio Construction & Shorts

Shorting Texas Pacific Land Trust

Royalty Trusts and Mesabi

Retail Shorts: Casey’s & Grocers

AI Industrials, Quantum, & Aerospace

Offshore Wind and Conclusion

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Important Disclaimers

Not Investment Advice: For education only — not financial, tax or legal advice.

AI-Generated: Made by AI from source transcripts and may contain errors.

No Guarantees: Past performance does not predict future results; investing carries risk.

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