Branko Milanovic on What Comes After Globalization
Speakers outline a geopolitical shift driven by domestic political instability, bipartisan toughness on China, and policies to reshore strategic production. They warn an unprecedented Chinese rise could trigger a broad 'China shock' across manufacturing, services, and finance while Beijing's state interventions and low household consumption (around 45% of GDP) reshape global dynamics. The conversation links the end of neoliberal globalization to a rise in 'national market liberalism', highlights Africa's demographic importance, and flags AI as a key uncertainty for jobs and cross‑border business.
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Read the Full SummaryKey Takeaways
Speakers say rising U.S. political instability—driven by broad anti‑elite sentiment that mobilized roughly 77 million voters and persistent immigration/border salience—has pushed policymakers toward externalizing blame by targeting China (tariffs and outward‑focused tools) rather than adopting redistributive domestic reforms like higher taxes or transfers.
Since around 2016 Western governments have coalesced on a Trump‑era posture toward China, creating bipartisan continuity and intensified China‑targeted economic policy that is being paired with reshoring initiatives to rebuild domestic industrial and military‑relevant capacity hollowed out by highly efficient Chinese production (for example, Chinese EV competition affecting Germany).
Speakers warn that China's unprecedented concentration of production and decades of compounding growth could produce a 'China shock' extending beyond manufacturing into finance, services and jobs, and that this shift risks crowding out other countries' normal mid‑level industrialization pathways.
China's inward cultural preferences—media and readers focused largely on domestic audiences—limit its soft power projection abroad, while Xi Jinping's recent interventions to curb wealthy entrepreneurs and block or control major IPOs underscore a sharper boundary between private fortune and political power.
Post‑Mao China rapidly expanded capitalist classes and redirects SOE retained earnings into strategic infrastructure, technology and overseas influence, yet its consumption‑to‑GDP ratio is only around 45%—a pattern blamed on wage compression and weak rural social protection—which means continued high Chinese growth can mechanically increase measured global inequality unless poorer regions also grow.
GEO-POLITICS
“Domestic politics. I think like, you know, I think we're living in The United States…”—
“It feels to me like 1 of the remarkable things about the last 10 years, and it literally has been 10 years, has the whole West and the Western political…”—
“So you are sitting there, you are a government of The United States, let's say, you have 2 possible options.”—
TECHNOLOGY
“1 of them is AI, because we don't really know what it's going to mean for our literal jobs or the companies we work for, etcetera.”—
ECONOMY
“When I think actually my entire life, I remember each of these 4 orders, and I'm now present at the birth of what they call national market liberalism, which I…”—
“But arguably that is a characterization of what did happen in China, particularly after Mao, right?…”—
“The fact is actually China consumption to GDP ratio is very low…”—
MARKETS
“There was recently an article I think in Foreign Affairs by Subramanian and another author, mostly from the Indian perspective, but essentially saying if China is better in high end…”—

Hosts Introduce Topic
The hosts open the episode framing concerns about AI, domestic politics, and China as drivers of a shifting global order.
Book Motivation
Branko Milanovic explains why he wrote his new book, tracing the end of neoliberal globalization and the rise of a new order.
Historical Framing
The conversation situates recent shifts against 20th-century efforts to stabilize capitalism and the differing paths countries took.
China's Duality
They discuss China’s simultaneous technological parity with advanced economies and remaining low consumption and rural poverty.
Reshoring And Nationalism
Hosts and guest explore how pandemic and geopolitical shocks spurred nationalism in economic policy and reshoring efforts.
China's Consumption Puzzle
Milanovic discusses China's low consumption-to-GDP ratio, retained state profits, and political economy reasons behind savings behavior.
China's Cultural Isolation
He argues China’s relative cultural insularity limits its soft power, affecting global influence despite economic growth.
Rise Of The Elite
The podcast examines the growth of a 'homo plutiae' elite who earn both high labor and capital incomes and defend meritocratic norms.
Scale Of Chinese Rise
They emphasize the unprecedented speed and scale of China's capitalist transition and elite formation compared to historical cases.
Risk, War, And Peace
Milanovic weighs the risks of great‑power conflict under national market liberalism and sketches an optimistic path involving ceasefires and renegotiation of global rules.
China Shock Spread
They consider how a rapid Chinese rise could produce a broad 'China shock' across manufacturing, services, and finance and the policy responses it prompts.
Wrap And Takeaways
Hosts close the episode reflecting on how the end of neoliberal globalization might reshape elites, policy, and the role of Africa and AI in the 21st century.
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