PodcastThe Real Investment ShowLance Roberts

10-15-26 Inflation Runs Hot: What's Next for the Fed?

Hotter-than-expected inflation lifted the odds of a Fed hike, even as Treasury yields reversed lower and market participants weighed several possible explanations. The discussion also covered uneven equity performance, strong retail demand for safer bond funds, and gradually widening credit spreads, with CCC debt a point to monitor. Speakers highlighted potential financing pressures for cloud companies and the additional bond supply that AI investment could bring, while describing mortgage-backed securities’ yield premium and duration risks.

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Key Takeaways

CPI came in 0.1 percentage point above expectations and the probability of an October 28 Fed hike rose from about 20% to over 50%, yet bond yields fell after initially rising; hotter-than-expected PPI also saw rates reverse after an initial spike. The speaker distinguishes short-term yields, which track expected Fed funds rates, from 30-year yields, which reflect broader inflation and economic trends over many years.

The speakers say higher yields can raise company borrowing costs and cause firms to delay plant investment or hiring when projects no longer meet return thresholds. They warn that excessive Fed tightening or sharply wider corporate spreads could make financing harder for CoreWeave and other less-fortified cloud companies, though they emphasize that this scenario is not currently happening.

The speakers describe a rotation away from mega-cap and semiconductor stocks, with equal-weight RSP and broader breadth recovering as health care and financials performed well and energy benefited from rising oil prices. Separately, retail investors bought nearly $3 billion in bond ETFs during October’s first seven sessions, favoring T-bills, ultrashort-duration funds, municipal bonds, and Treasuries while credit, loans, and CLOs received only 4% of their usual demand.

Credit spreads are widening gradually, with CCC-rated debt near its highest spread levels since around 2008, but the speakers characterize the increase as small relative to past surges and not evidence of acute market-wide stress. The speaker cautions that CCC spreads can move disproportionately when one troubled issuer is affected because the category contains relatively few bonds, unlike the larger BBB issuer pool.

ECONOMY

CPI And Fed Odds — CPI came in 0.1 percentage point above expectations, and the probability of a hike at the October 28 Fed meeting rose from about 20% to over 50%. Bond yields nevertheless fell, prompting the speakers to ask why they declined despite the shift in rate expectations.

“CPI was a tenth of a percent higher than expected. generally not a good report…”—

Bill Yield Mechanics — A one-month Treasury bill yield primarily reflects the current fed funds rate and expectations for the next 30 days, combined as a weighted average. The speaker says the resulting yield is usually within a basis point or two of that figure.

“If we're looking at a one-month Treasury bill, the predominant factor in a one-mon Treasury bill is what are Fed funds going to be today and what are they going…”—

Treasury Yield Drivers — The speaker contrasts short-term Treasury yields, which are closely tied to expected Fed funds rates, with 30-year yields, which reflect broader inflation and economic trends. A single monthly inflation surprise matters less to 30-year investors, he says, because their bonds incorporate many years of inflation reports.

“So, it's entirely fed off the inflation off the Fed funds expectation. You go to the complete opposite end of the curve, the 30-year…”—

MARKETS

Rate Reversal — After CPI came in hotter than expected, interest rates initially rose, then reversed and sold off strongly. The transcript reports the move but does not establish what caused the reversal.

“Interestingly enough, yesterday interest rates opened up higher, which you would expect with a higher than expected CPI number, but then reversed and actually sold off pretty strongly yesterday.”—

Market Broadening — The speakers describe a rotation away from mega-cap and semiconductor shares, with equal-weight RSP and broader market breadth showing signs of recovery. Health care and financials performed well, while energy benefited from rising oil prices. They characterize the shift as a move from unusually divided performance toward the middle, not as a reason by itself to sell.

“Last week we talked about rotating from growth to value. And this is what we're seeing since then…”—

PPI Rate Reversal — The speaker says producer price inflation was somewhat hotter than expected, particularly at the core, and interest rates initially spiked before reversing. He describes a mixed bond-market response, not a sustained rise in rates.

“I mean it wasn't you know massively different than expectations but it was a little bit hotter than expected particularly at the core and we saw interest rates spike up…”—

FORECASTS

100-Day Moving Average — After a brief attempt at an all-time high, markets returned to the trading range in place since the beginning of August. With futures pointing lower, the host says the S&P could break below support and test the range bottom near the 100-day moving average.

“We're going to break that today. futures right now are pointing down about 20 points on the S&P…”—

INTRO

Lance opens with a brief market preview, noting that hotter CPI, upcoming PPI and retail sales, and the approaching Fed meeting could shape trading and rate expectations.

CPI Comes in Hot

Lance says CPI exceeded expectations, increasing the odds of a Fed rate hike and renewing pressure on markets already stuck in a trading range.

Markets Sell Off on Inflation Print

Lance describes the market's pullback after the inflation report, with futures threatening moving-average support and a possible test of the range's lower edge.

RSP Showing Recovery in Rotations

Lance says equal-weight RSP is recovering as leadership broadens beyond mega-cap technology, supporting a measured stance rather than selling into ordinary rotation.

Barry White & Sore Throats

Lance jokes about his strained, Barry White-like voice before welcoming guest Michael Leeuw.

The Tell of the Tails - Foreign Selling & Domestic Buying

Michael reads Treasury-market price tails as signs of overnight selling followed by daytime recovery, suggesting domestic demand has countered possible foreign or hedge-fund selling.

Retail Bond Buying

The speakers cite record retail purchases of bond ETFs, concentrated in T-bills, ultrashort bonds, municipals, and Treasuries, as investors respond to attractive yields.

Two Reasons: CPI +.01%, Bond Yields Fall

Michael argues longer-term Treasury yields could fall despite hot CPI because investors may expect tighter Fed policy to weaken the economy and inflation; AI-related debt concerns may also matter.

When Bad News is Good News

The speakers say a potential Fed policy mistake could make inflation news supportive for longer bonds if rate hikes slow growth enough to suppress future inflation.

CoreWeave (neo-cloud) Factor: Is AI Overbuilding?

They discuss CoreWeave's falling stock and sharply higher borrowing costs as evidence of doubts about neo-cloud business prospects, refinancing capacity, and AI infrastructure overbuilding.

Credit Spread Widening: Is the Fed Making a Mistake?

Michael says credit spreads are widening gradually, with more pronounced stress in CCC debt, while the speakers consider how restrictive policy could create financing pressure.

How Fed Policy is Working Through the Economy

Michael explains that higher borrowing costs can cause companies to delay investment and hiring, illustrating how Fed policy transmits through credit conditions into the economy.

Credit Spreads in CCC Arena (chart)

The speakers distinguish CCC spread widening from broader credit stress, noting the category's volatility and the still-muted moves in higher-rated debt.

The Fed Wants the Cost of Money to be More Painful

Michael says the Fed wants borrowing to feel more costly, but warns that excessive tightening could trigger corporate distress and a damaging economic spiral.

Mortgage-backed Securities (MBS) as Surrogates for Bond Market (chart)

Michael introduces mortgage-backed securities as a less-understood bond-market alternative, explaining how pools of conforming home loans generate principal and interest payments.

The Problem with MBS - Becoming Specified Pools

The speakers explain how mortgage prepayments make MBS duration change with interest rates, creating extension risk when rates rise and reinvestment risk when rates fall.

Why Buy MBS vs Treasury?

Michael warns that individual MBS holdings can become aged, smaller specified pools that are difficult to trade, making managed funds or ETFs worth considering.

PPI & Retail Sales Preview

They say MBS can offer roughly two percentage points of extra yield over Treasuries, but that premium comes with changing duration, prepayment, and principal-return risks.

Important Disclaimers

Not Investment Advice: For education only — not financial, tax or legal advice.

AI-Generated: Made by AI from source transcripts and may contain errors.

No Guarantees: Past performance does not predict future results; investing carries risk.

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