Esther Wong (Cashi) on Making Stablecoins Spendable (EP.743)

PodcastOn The BrinkEsther WongOct 5

Wong discusses how stablecoins are changing payment infrastructure and describes the users her team initially expected to serve versus those appearing in its first beta. She highlights differences in cross-border settlement, regional stablecoin demand, and the challenges of making dollar balances usable for everyday spending. She also sees potential for lower-cost AI services and gradually expanding agent payments, while noting that autonomous transactions may still be two to three years away.

Stablecoins AI Infrastructure Currencies

Preview · 11 more points in the app

Read the Full Summary

Key Takeaways

Wong says dollar-denominated stablecoins can make dollars easier to access, but access does not guarantee convenient spending: in Venezuela, limited point-of-sale infrastructure, reliance on QR codes, and an exchange-rate gap of up to 17% shape how users hold and spend dollars.

Wong describes card payments as dependent on Visa and Mastercard’s infrastructure, with higher volume potentially helping providers negotiate rebates that lower unit economics by up to 80%; she contrasts that negotiation burden with AUM, which she says is easier to monetize because it is more permissionless.

Wong’s initial hypothesis was that freelancers, creators, and digital nomads might use dollars or stablecoins to overcome limited banking access, high fees, or slow payments, but the first beta users instead appeared to include people living outside their country of nationality who used the product for everyday purchases.

Wong expects spending on AI to increase and hopes token costs will fall, while saying an agent is not required to pay an AI service. She expects agent payments to progress from human-assisted transactions to recurring payments and decisions within set limits as trust grows, with broader autonomous payments possibly two to three years away.

GEO-POLITICS

Capital Controls — Wong says she is unsure how governments that restrict capital outflows, such as China, will respond to stablecoins. She argues users are more likely to want dollar-denominated stablecoins than tokens denominated in local currency because stablecoins make dollars easier to access.

“There's also like China, for example, they've always been controlling the outflow. Right? So what is the response sort of? Honestly, I don't know…”—

TECHNOLOGY

Payment Infrastructure — Wong says stablecoin adoption is prompting institutions such as Visa and Mastercard to change their infrastructure and settlement processes. That shift led her to investigate stablecoins more closely.

“And given my role, I actually worked with a lot of payment companies, for example, Visa, Mastercard…”—

Intended Users — Wong says the team initially hypothesized that freelancers, content creators, and digital nomads could benefit from receiving dollars or stablecoins, especially if they lacked bank access or faced high fees and slow payments. She presents this as an initial hypothesis, not a proven adoption pattern.

“So we came in thinking that a lot of freelancers, content creators around the world, like digital nomads, would find this product really useful because they are getting paid in…”—

Early Spending — Wong says the team's first beta users did not yet match its creator-focused hypothesis. They appeared to include people living outside their country of nationality who used the product for everyday purchases, including groceries and online shopping.

“And as we build, we got our first initial batch of users. And we realized it's actually not really the creators yet…”—

MARKETS

Venezuelan Spending — Wong says demand for dollar stablecoins varies by country and Venezuelan users may find them difficult to spend with a card. Limited merchant point-of-sale infrastructure, greater use of QR codes, and an exchange-rate difference of up to 17% shape how users hold and spend dollars.

“Definitely demand in dollars, stablecoins, but different country are actually quite different. We started to look into, let's say, Venezuela users…”—

Regional Demand — Wong says stablecoin preferences vary by region and are driven largely by local liquidity and supply. She says USDT is banned in Europe, where demand for USDC is consequently higher; in some other countries, users may favor USDT if it is more available through a particular exchange.

“So for example, in Europe, USDT is now banned. So the demand for USDC then is obviously much higher in that region…”—

Card Economics — Wong says card payments are challenging because Visa and Mastercard control much of the infrastructure. Higher volume can help providers negotiate rebates with the networks, potentially lowering unit economics by up to 80%.

“Card payments is always tricky because you have the two giants, Visa and Mastercard controlling a lot of the non negotiables…”—

Cashi’s Early Users

Wong traces Cashi to her payments background and says its first beta users differ from the freelancers and creators the team initially expected to attract.

Regional Dollar Demand

Wong explains that local payment habits and exchange-rate gaps shape how people hold and spend stablecoins, with demand and preferred coins varying by region.

Tokenized Securities Plans

Wong is interested in offering tokenized investments but says product fit and complex legal questions around trading, liquidity, and dividends must come first.

Cashi’s Payments Stack

Wong favors connecting directly to core providers rather than relying on a white-label platform, accepting a slower launch in exchange for more control and better unit economics.

AI Payments Timeline

Wong expects AI subscriptions to resemble other recurring services and predicts payments will advance from agent assistance toward limited autonomous transactions over the next two to three years.

Agent Payment Risks

The speakers highlight merchant acceptance, disputes, responsibility, and fraud as unresolved challenges for agent-driven transactions, especially when on-chain transfers cannot be reversed.

Stablecoin Chain Economics

Wong says users chiefly care about liquidity and trust, while both speakers question whether stablecoin activity will create durable value for blockchain tokens.

Making Stablecoins Usable

Wong says blockchain-based infrastructure can simplify global dollar payments, and AI helps Cashi localize its product and add language support more quickly.

Cashi’s Product Roadmap

Wong says dollar stablecoins can challenge governments facing currency outflows, then outlines sustainable cashback, AI-assisted payments, and licensing plans for future offerings.