Bonds To Reverse Soon As Yields Approach 'Line In The Sand'? | Michael Lebowitz
Lebowitz argues that underlying inflation is near pre-Iran-war levels, while employment and broader growth appear weaker than headline data suggest. He sees tariffs and an Iran-related supply shock as potentially fading sources of inflation, but says deficits and AI-related borrowing could continue pressuring bonds. With the 10-year Treasury yield approaching a potential 5% line in the sand, he favors patience and expects bond yields to trend lower over the next couple of years, while warning that richly valued equities could deliver roughly zero returns over the next decade.
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Lebowitz argues that underlying inflation remains relatively contained, citing core CPI at 2.5%, trimmed-mean PCE at 2.3%, and breakeven expectations near 2.4% to 2.5%, while recent inflation pressure has largely reflected tariffs and an Iran-related supply shock. He says another Fed hike could be a policy mistake because inflation does not justify current interest-rate levels, although it remains above the Fed’s 2% objective.
The episode presents a weakening-growth backdrop: Lebowitz questions the latest employment report because of revisions and weak confirmation from ADP and JOLTS, and says growth may be flat to negative excluding AI-related activity. At the same time, rising intermediate- and long-term rates have already lifted auto-loan, credit-card, mortgage, and corporate borrowing costs by roughly 50 to 75 basis points, with effects potentially appearing over three to nine months.
AI could eventually support growth and disinflation, but its near-term economic effects may be inflationary because of higher memory-chip prices and massive data-center construction. AI-related borrowing by hyperscalers, combined with broader fiscal deficits, could also increase demand for debt and equity financing and pressure the bond market.
Lebowitz distinguishes bond fundamentals from market narratives: inflation expectations typically influence yields, but events such as credit downgrades can temporarily push yields higher even when long-run fundamentals suggest yields are already elevated. The host says yields are still moving higher, while Lebowitz’s default outlook is for yields to trend lower over the next couple of years toward the economy’s real growth rate.
TECHNOLOGY
“Right now, some of it is more inflationary, higher memory chips like we talked about…”—
ECONOMY
“Core CPI is 2.5%. We know energy prices have shot up and the prices of some other goods have gone up because of the Iran war…”—
“Employment, we had a great employment report last Friday, but we've seen massive revisions. So trust it all you want…”—
“Deficits. Right? That's we see a story about high deficits every day. The greater your deficits, the more debt you have to issue…”—
MARKETS
“So kind of 1 of our themes is that there's bond fundamentals and there's bond narratives. And at the end of the day, historically, fundamentals drive yield…”—
“But the difference here, sorry to interject, is the difference this time is you're getting paid to wait. You're getting paid near 5%…”—
“I think the market may step in at 5% before central planners…”—
FORECASTS
“I do think that 10 year bond yields at 5% is potentially a line in the sand for both the economy, the stock market, and definitely the treasury, and possibly…”—
“So right now, cape is sitting at like 41, implying that returns for the next 10 years are going to be 0…”—
“I think I'd rather be at a point where we buy it, Let's just hypothetically say the tenure at 4 50 versus 5%, but a lot more confidence that we're…”—
Bond Yield Setup
Lebowitz distinguishes bond fundamentals from short-term narratives and explains why recent yield increases may not reflect inflation, employment, or growth fundamentals.
Inflation And Deficits
Lebowitz argues underlying inflation is near prewar levels, while weak growth, deficits, AI borrowing, and market narratives continue pressuring Treasury yields.
Bond Market Opportunity
The guests discuss the potential value of bonds near 5% yields, emphasizing patient investors, institutional demand, income, and the option to buy risk assets later.
Fed Policy Risk
Lebowitz questions the Fed’s hawkish inflation messaging, warns that rate hikes could be a policy mistake, and expects the yield curve to flatten.
Retirement Portfolio Planning
The discussion turns to retirement goals, fixed-income allocation, financial planning software, and using required returns rather than equity benchmarks to guide portfolios.
Closing Remarks
Taggart thanks Lebowitz, promotes the channel and conference, and closes with a brief unrelated promotional clip.
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