PodcastThe RollupAvalon Ingram

Avalon Ingram: Banks Are Done Experimenting With Tokenization

Avalon Ingram describes Swift’s ledger activity and explains how tokenized deposits, stablecoins, and regional settlement models differ. She says adoption should be judged by customer value, recurring volume, and demand, while settlement access remains a constraint on 24/7 interbank activity. Separately, the host argues that always-on markets will require faster, continuously available financial infrastructure.

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Key Takeaways

Avalon Ingram says 17 banks are already transacting live on Swift’s ledger, up from an initial plan to test with about six, but she argues that critical mass should be judged by customer value, recurring volume, and demand—not participant count alone. The host says banks are starting to take notice, while Ingram questions whether banks with only one or two correspondent relationships need to build private ledgers.

Ingram describes Swift’s blockchain as an upgrade because existing messages cannot move digital assets, but the ledger records interbank transfer obligations rather than exchanging tokens. Since banks still settle through correspondent accounts or RTGS, she identifies round-the-clock access to settlement venues as a bottleneck to 24/7 interbank settlement.

Ingram says tokenized deposits are liabilities of individual banks and generally are not interchangeable, while stablecoins can be portable if recipients accept them; the choice depends on the use case, including liquidity fragmentation, speed, and cost. Stablecoin treatment also varies by jurisdiction, and whether one can be sent to a particular jurisdiction may remain uncertain.

TECHNOLOGY

Swift Adoption — Avalon Ingram says 17 banks are transacting live on Swift’s ledger, up from an initial plan to test with about six. The working group included just over 40 banks, but participation initially required a tokenized-deposit platform or private ledger, excluding banks that were not yet mature enough.

“17 banks transacting live transactions sort of blows blows the mind a little bit. But I think it is a very strong indication of market maturity. Institutions are backing this…”—

Blockchain Upgrade — Avalon Ingram describes Swift’s blockchain as a technology upgrade: its existing messaging system cannot move digital assets. She says market indicators suggest digital assets are here to stay.

“I think of that as akin to, you know, a letter being addressed to you with really important documents inside, right? That's kind of the Swift message…”—

Always-On Markets — The host argues that idle, locked-up capital will not work in a world moving toward 24/7 markets. He says financial infrastructure is being developed to make activity faster and more continuously available.

“you're also speaking to something that I think just puts even more emphasis on the problem which is that very soon and this is again something I heard last week…”—

ECONOMY

Stablecoin Rules — Ingram says stablecoin treatment varies across jurisdictions, while commercial bank money generally receives more consistent treatment. Whether a stablecoin can be sent to a particular jurisdiction may remain an open question.

“Generally speaking, however, a tokenized deposit being commercial bank money remains commercial bank money, right?…”—

Intro

Ingram says Swift’s ledger went live after nine months of development, with 17 banks transacting and institutional commitment signaling that tokenization has moved beyond speculation.

Swift Ledger Live With 17 Banks

She compares Swift’s messaging to delivering a letter: it communicates information but cannot move a digital asset, which requires blockchain infrastructure.

Swift Message Cannot Move A Digital Asset

Ingram says banks and multinational corporates are focused on improving liquidity and treasury management, putting idle capital to more productive use rather than concentrating on retail applications.

Idle Capital Finally Gets Unlocked

She credits Asia’s supportive regulators, established tokenization experience, and mature instant-payment options with preparing regional banks for digital-asset experimentation.

Asia Already Ahead On Payments

Ingram distinguishes stablecoins, often considered as settlement assets, from tokenized commercial bank money, which is a liability of one bank and is generally not interchangeable.

Stablecoins Vs Tokenized Deposits Explained

She says stablecoins and tokenized deposits can serve different use cases, with jurisdictional rules affecting stablecoin treatment while commercial bank money is more consistently recognized.

Stablecoins And Deposits Not Competing

Swift’s ledger records interbank liabilities while separating payment execution from settlement; Ingram describes the current design as an MVP that can evolve with regulation and market needs.

Swift Is An Interbank Liability Registry

Banks still use Swift messaging and traditional correspondent accounts or RTGS for settlement, so continuously available on-chain or 24/7 settlement venues remain a requirement for round-the-clock activity.

24/7 Settlement Still The Missing Piece

Ingram says Swift’s model must accommodate jurisdictional differences, including regional preferences for wholesale CBDCs, consortium stablecoins, and other central-bank settlement arrangements.

From 17 Banks To 17,000

The 17 participating banks were selected partly for existing ledger readiness; Ingram says adoption should be measured by customer value, recurring transaction volume, and real demand rather than network size alone.

Perfect Storm Of Adoption Coming Soon

Ingram anticipates a coming balance between adoption and necessity as banks evaluate the costs and value of joining, while the host frames the live pilot as a move from experimentation into practice.

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Not Investment Advice: For education only — not financial, tax or legal advice.

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