The Fed Is Facing An Impossible Problem | Judy Shelton & Thomas Hoenig
The discussion focuses on the Fed's limited control over inflation and long-term yields amid roughly $2 trillion in annual debt issuance, foreign Treasury selling, energy shocks, and competition for capital from AI companies and hyperscalers. Judy Shelton and Tom Hoenig argue for tighter fiscal and monetary discipline, including slower deficit growth, scarce reserves, and potentially a 0% average-inflation target, while examining gold standards, currency boards, and gold-backed bonds as possible constraints. They warn that correcting the debt burden over the next five to six years could bring sharply higher rates and a painful "Volcker moment."
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Read the Full SummaryKey Takeaways
The discussion frames roughly $2 trillion in annual U.S. debt issuance as a direct constraint on Fed policy: accommodating it can amount to indirect debt monetization, while refusing could push yields higher. Tom Hoenig says the debt problem must be addressed over the next five to six years, even if the long end of the curve rises and the economy experiences a painful "Volcker moment."
The speakers argue that the Fed has less control over inflation and longer-term yields than its policy framework implies. Oil-price shocks, foreign Treasury sales, private-credit competition, and AI companies competing for capital can all affect prices or yields outside the Fed's direct control.
Kevin Warsh's proposed reform agenda is presented as a shift toward market-determined capital costs rather than rates imposed by a committee, while still targeting inflation of at least 2%. That approach would face political resistance if it required Volcker-style discipline, particularly amid reported public challenges to Fed leadership.
The post-2008 ample-reserves framework is criticized for expanding excess reserves to roughly $3 trillion and relying on interest paid on reserve balances, which the speakers say rewards banks for holding riskless assets and reduces lending to smaller businesses. They argue that returning to scarce reserves could restore price discovery in the federal-funds market.
Foreign demand and ownership of U.S. debt are portrayed as an important vulnerability: China and Japan are reducing Treasury holdings, while tariff or political developments could further weaken overseas demand. The speakers point to repo and swap facilities, including the $60 billion FIMA facility, as mechanisms that could help foreign authorities obtain dollars without selling Treasuries.
GEO-POLITICS
“And I think Kevin Warsh made it clear that he wanted to have family fights. He's not someone who wants group think or unquestioned loyalty to his own views…”—
“So you know I my first job post-doal was out at Stanford University at the Hoover Institution working for Martin Anderson who was Ronald Reagan's chief domestic economic policy adviser…”—
TECHNOLOGY
“It's not only a good thing, but it's a natural order of things as technology increases the standard of living at a lower price.”—
ECONOMY
“So, so we have a conundrum and the conundrum is really how do you solve an impossible problem which is $2 trillion of annual debt and the Fed is now…”—
“The Fed can't really control the price of oil…”—
“I think the challenge for him will be to continue with he's already laying out the groundwork with the notion that we should let free market forces of demand and…”—
MARKETS
“We want these foreign central banks and foreigners in general to continue to hold US debt and Japan is the largest holder. They have close to 1.2 trillion…”—
“he even left his notes out in the open the other day at a cabinet meeting knowing reporters would see it literally said to-do list by another 5 to 10…”—
“because gold has recently displaced the US dollar as the number one reserve asset held by major central banks around the world.”—
FORECASTS
“So it's it's a it's a conundrum that we've created and it won't be easily solved. But it has to be carefully solved over the next five to six years…”—
Fed Leadership Transition
Adam introduces Judy Shelton and Thomas Hoenig, framing Kevin Warsh's new Fed leadership against persistent inflation, rising oil prices, foreign Treasury selling, and higher yields.
Warsh’s Hawkish Mandate
Shelton praises Warsh's task-force approach and market-oriented instincts, while Hoenig emphasizes the difficulty of resisting balance-sheet growth amid roughly $2 trillion in annual debt issuance.
Fed Culture And Dissent
The guests discuss Warsh's effort to introduce heterodox thinking, internal Fed culture, public disagreements, and the need for vigorous private debate without undermining the chair publicly.
Japan Repo Financing
Shelton and Hoenig examine Treasury and Fed repo facilities supporting Japan, warning that intervention may prevent Treasury sales while indirectly helping finance America's debt.
Foreign Treasury Selling
Hoenig calls America's debt burden an impossible problem, while Shelton explains why Japan's holdings and currency pressures make Treasury-market stability a sensitive policy concern.
Dollar Versus Gold
The panel considers whether Treasuries remain the world's premier safe haven as gold gains prominence, emphasizing global debt excesses, Japan's vulnerabilities, and declining confidence in fiat systems.
America’s Fiscal Exposure
Shelton argues that foreign ownership leaves the United States vulnerable and that unchecked congressional deficits force the Fed into an unhealthy conflict with fiscal policy.
Three Debt Scenarios
Hoenig outlines continued monetization, disciplined Fed restraint, and congressional deficit reduction, warning that refusing to monetize could trigger sharply higher rates and a painful Volcker moment.
Gold Standard Constraints
The guests debate whether Congress and the Fed can self-regulate under fiat money, considering gold standards, currency boards, and other mechanisms that could impose monetary discipline.
Balanced Budget Enforcement
Shelton supports stronger fiscal rules and state-led pressure for a balanced-budget amendment, while the discussion explores automatic penalties and the political incentives behind deficit spending.
Gold-Backed Treasury Bonds
Shelton presents gold-backed Treasury bonds as a market-based anchor, while both guests argue that fiscal discipline and private capital formation are essential to restoring prosperity.
AI Capital Competition
Rising yields reflect competition between government borrowing and AI companies seeking long-term capital, leaving the Fed unable to control important forces shaping the bond market.
Energy Shock Limits
Hoenig explains that sustained energy-price increases can damage growth but cannot be solved by the Fed, which can only adjust monetary conditions around an external supply shock.
Scarce Reserves Framework
Shelton criticizes interest on reserve balances for restricting small-business credit, and Hoenig advocates returning to scarce reserves and greater market price discovery.
Fed Mortgage Holdings
The panel questions why the Fed still owns mortgage-backed securities, citing credit allocation, housing-market concerns, accounting losses, and the possibility of asset swaps.
Monetary Policy And Inequality
Shelton and Hoenig argue that inflation and asset-price gains have widened wealth inequality, undermined trust, and increased support for socialism while harming ordinary Americans.
A Zero Inflation Target
Hoenig endorses a 0% average-inflation target, with Shelton agreeing that technological progress and sound money can support stable prices and stronger long-term living standards.
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