Perspectives: From innovation to interoperability

PodcastHSBC Global ViewpointThierry ChilosiOct 14

The discussion focuses on making tokenized value interoperable across banks, assets, and locally operated ledgers, with wholesale payments as an initial use case. Speakers point to potential gains in liquidity access, payment transparency, and cash management, while warning that disconnected systems could exclude some geographies and groups. The HSBC speaker describes mainstream cross-border payment adoption within three to four years as an aspiration, not a certainty.

Tokenization Banking Blockchain

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Key Takeaways

Interoperability is presented as the key challenge: tokenized value must be exchangeable across locally operated ledgers, with those ledgers connected to clearing and settlement systems in different geographies. Without that connectivity, liquidity may not reach clients where needed, and disconnected systems could exclude entire geographies, economies, or groups of people.

The speakers describe blockchain’s next phase as expanding across assets such as bonds, currencies, and tokenized money market funds, while broadening bank participation; a network used by only three banks can facilitate payments only among them. One speaker says the SOFR ledger initiative shows banks can innovate rapidly at scale and retain a central role as digital finance evolves.

Wholesale payments are an initial use case because cut-off times and liquidity trapped in the payment chain create friction, while faster blockchain and instant-payment capabilities could help customers anticipate cash needs. A speaker also sees AI complementing faster SWIFT ledger transactions by helping ensure they occur correctly and securely.

TECHNOLOGY

Token Interoperability — A speaker says the challenge is not creating tokenized forms of value, but making them exchangeable.

“One of the problems we were facing, it was about not the problem of having tokenized forms of value, but how do we make sure they were exchangeable?”—

Bank Adoption — A speaker argues that blockchain's impact grows with broader bank adoption. A network used by only three banks can facilitate payments only among those banks.

“The advantage and power of blockchain comes in when, a, the whole world starts using it…”—

Multi-Asset Blockchain — A speaker says the next phase is to scale blockchain across asset types, including bonds, currencies, and tokenized money market funds. These initiatives are already underway.

“And the second thing we want to do is, you know, blockchain becomes, you know, comes really on its own, but it starts becoming multi asset…”—

FORECASTS

Payment Adoption — The HSBC speaker says success would mean these cross-border payments become mainstream in three to four years—and potentially the only way cross-border payments happen. Clients would notice an improvement, but not the technology behind it. This is an aspiration, not a certainty.

“And to me, like, success here would be if after three years, four years, this becomes mainstream, this becomes the only way payments happen cross border, and our clients turn…”—

SWIFT Ledger Launch

Manish Kohli and Thierry Chilosi introduce the SWIFT ledger, its participating banks, and the live transactions that demonstrate progress toward tokenized value across banks.

Bank-Grade Ledger Design

The speakers describe a collaborative effort to make tokenized deposits work across banks, emphasizing secure, resilient infrastructure and a carefully controlled rollout.

Wholesale Treasury Payments

They identify wider bank participation and multi-asset support as priorities, while positioning faster access to cash and less fragmented liquidity as the first practical benefits.

Client Payment Priorities

The speakers say corporate treasurers want payment insight, transparency, and certainty—not a particular technology—and describe mainstream cross-border adoption in three to four years as an aspiration.

AI And Payment Insights

They see AI complementing faster ledger transactions through stronger security, useful insights, and more predictive decisions about where cash will be needed.

Interoperability Across Markets

The speakers argue that connecting local ledgers, payment systems, and asset types is essential to global reach, collaboration, and financial inclusion; they close by affirming banks’ role in innovation.