PodcastMarket Disruptors PodcastKen McElroy

Multifamily Is in a 2008 Moment. Ken McElroy Explains Why.

McElroy discusses multifamily investing through the costs and financing pressures facing owners, including inflation, rising rates, and insurance expenses. He emphasizes conservative leverage, cash flow, downside underwriting, and operational improvements, while explaining how taxes, refinancing, and headline returns can shape an investor's actual outcome. He also points to population growth in Utah and Micron's project near Boise as sources of local market activity.

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Key Takeaways

McElroy distinguishes debt backed by cash-flowing assets from borrowing for land development, which has no current income to repay it. He favors fixed debt on income-producing property, conservative loan-to-value of roughly 50%–60%, and enough cash flow to withstand some income loss.

McElroy says debt is typically cheaper than equity, but the property must support the full financing cost: his example of 50% equity at 7% and 50% debt at 5% yields a 6% blended cost. He also cautions that equity costs vary, including when investors contribute their own savings.

McElroy describes several potential tax strategies with important conditions: spreading investment across properties may increase depreciation deductions, while a $10 million jet may be fully written off in its purchase year but face recapture upon sale. He says a 1031 exchange can mitigate tax consequences from a property sale, and limited partners may be offered the option to roll into another property.

McElroy says inflation reached 9.1% in June 2022 and raised multifamily costs, including labor, materials, and insurance, while property taxes were also starting to rise. He separately warns of insurance pressure in Houston, along the Gulf of Texas, and in much of Florida, and says rising rates erased cash flow at Tucson's Prescidio until he put cash in to secure a rate.

ECONOMY

Bank Lending — McElroy describes deposits as bank liabilities: banks owe interest to depositors and lend those funds at higher rates. He says banks should want to make more good loans, which he views as contributing to their health.

“Like if if you're a bank and I hand it to you, we were just talking about this. You know, your friends grew up with a bank…”—

Depreciation Allocation — McElroy says investing across multiple properties may generate more depreciation expense to offset income than concentrating an investment in one property. He presents this as a potential tax benefit, not a guaranteed outcome.

“So if I if I put 10 million bucks down or 15 or 20 in this particular case on one property then I'm going to get tax on that one…”—

Bonus Depreciation — McElroy says a $10 million jet can be financed while its full purchase price is written off in the year of purchase. He notes that a sale can trigger recapture.

“And you know what I realized is you can buy a $10 million jet and write the whole thing off in the year you purchase it right now currently today…”—

MARKETS

Productive Debt — McElroy distinguishes debt tied to cash-flowing assets from harmful borrowing, such as credit-card debt. His rule is to use fixed-rate debt on a cash-flowing property and have someone else pay it off.

“you said you just don't understand that that's a piece of you know the debt is a piece of cash flowing assets and I think so but nobody really talks…”—

Development Debt — McElroy contrasts income-producing properties with land development, which generates no current income to repay debt. The borrower must wait and hope the market is there.

“So once you start getting into the into development or construction or you know something like land development has no income coming in…”—

Tenant Diversification — McElroy favors multiple tenants to diversify vacancy risk. He contrasts 10–20 tenants in an office building with hundreds in an apartment building, where 20 or 30 move-outs can be offset if that many tenants move in.

“I like to have multiple tenants and it gives me diversity…”—

Episode Trailer

Mark and Ken agree that debt can support wealth building when attached to cash-flowing assets, while recognizing that debt itself can also create serious risk.

If You Don't Understand Debt, You Don't Understand Wealth

They connect Nixon’s 1971 end to dollar convertibility with a debt-based monetary system, then discuss why many people still view debt as uniformly harmful.

1971 Turned the Dollar Into Debt

Ken says wealthy investors use debt selectively and insists his central rule is that property cash flow—not the borrower—should ultimately repay it.

Ken's Rule: Somebody Else Pays Off the Debt

Mark’s Unchained advertisement describes multi-signature Bitcoin custody as a way to reduce the risk of a single compromised key.

Sponsor: Protect Your Bitcoin Inheritance with Unchained

Mark distinguishes credit backed by assets from borrowing to buy unaffordable consumption, while Ken explains how leverage can create investment velocity.

Credit vs Borrowing and Why Velocity Matters

They compare all-cash ownership with financing, discussing blended capital costs, property cash flow, depreciation, and how debt can interact with taxes.

When Using Debt Beats Buying All Cash

Mark’s Blockware advertisement promotes Bitcoin-mining hardware as a business asset that may qualify for bonus depreciation.

Sponsor: Turn Your Taxes Into Bitcoin with Blockware

Ken says real estate can build wealth but stresses experienced management, market cycles, conservative capitalization, and value creation rather than relying only on appreciation.

Is Real Estate Still the Best Wealth Builder?

Ken explains how preferred returns, cash-out refinancing, returning investor capital, and eventual sales can shape both investor returns and tax outcomes.

Sponsor: Earn Bitcoin on Your Cash with River

Mark’s River advertisement promotes earning Bitcoin on cash balances while describing the service’s stated yield and account features.

Ken’s Criteria for New Real Estate Deals

Ken evaluates deals by whether property income can cover investor preferences and the blended cost of capital, with upside coming from operational improvement.

Prefs, Cash-Out Refis, and Rolling the Next Deal

They discuss returning investor capital through refinancing, retaining ownership, and accounting for future profits, taxes, fees, and 1031 exchange options.

Sponsor: Take Control of Your Money with Rumble Wallet

Mark’s Rumble Wallet advertisement emphasizes self-custody and control of digital assets through a non-custodial wallet.

Why Multifamily Feels Like 2008

Ken contrasts the 2008 housing downturn with today’s multifamily stress, citing inflation-driven operating costs, higher interest rates, floating debt, and weak downside underwriting.

Single Family First or Passive Syndications?

Ken recommends learning with single-family properties when time allows, while saying passive syndications may suit investors who lack time but should scrutinize management.

Where Ken Is Buying Rentals and Why Rates Won't Save You

Ken describes buying in Sun Belt and Mountain West markets, cites Utah population growth and Micron’s Boise-area jobs, and says deals must work without assuming rates will fall.

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Important Disclaimers

Not Investment Advice: For education only — not financial, tax or legal advice.

AI-Generated: Made by AI from source transcripts and may contain errors.

No Guarantees: Past performance does not predict future results; investing carries risk.

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