PodcastWTFinanceClive Thompson

Gold's Bloodbath Reversing as Dollar Crumbles | Clive Thompson

Thompson argues that AI may continue advancing even as intense competition, lower pricing, and more than $5 trillion in expected spending by 2030 create investment risks. He links rising bond yields, heavy government borrowing, and potential debt-system changes to broader risks for currencies and financial assets. Against that backdrop, he favors greater gold exposure, expects continued support from China’s purchases, and sees possible upside if monetary stress prompts inflationary policy, while warning that equity valuations and sovereign-credit risks remain elevated.

Preview · 15 more points in the app

Read the Full Summary

Key Takeaways

Thompson argues that AI’s technological progress may outpace its investment returns: more than $5 trillion could be spent by 2030 against roughly $100 billion to $200 billion in current gross revenue, while competition may compress pricing and favor lower-cost specialized services. He also says Anthropic, OpenAI, and Microsoft Copilot are credible contenders, but he would not yet bet on a single long-term winner.

Rising sovereign borrowing costs are being linked to worsening fiscal positions: the U.S. 30-year Treasury yield reached 5.41% amid a roughly $2 trillion annual deficit, while France’s 30-year yield reached 5.2% versus 3.845% for Germany because of budget and credit concerns. Thompson views these developments as evidence of broader debt-system risk, though he says any transition could involve financial repression, capital controls, or a new currency and its timing is unknown.

Thompson says elevated equity valuations can persist or rise further because government borrowing may channel savings into stocks, but the U.S. market’s roughly 27-times earnings multiple is well above normalized historical levels of about 16 to 18 times and therefore implies lower future returns. He cautions that valuation alone does not trigger a crash, while noting that low-strike reverse convertibles can add downside exposure despite offering roughly 7% to 8% interest.

Thompson favors a portfolio framework of 60% equities, 20% gold, and 20% other assets rather than a traditional 60/40 allocation, with bond exposure concentrated in short-dated government securities. His preference reflects concerns that long-duration bonds could be vulnerable to rising yields and that assets held through banks, insurers, or governments may face taxation, confiscation, or forced sales, as illustrated by Russian shares sold for 30% of market value.

TECHNOLOGY

AI Investment Risk — Thompson argues that AI technology will continue advancing, but the investment case may disappoint. Data centers, microchips, and related projects are being funded on expected future revenue that may not justify current spending. He cites more than $5 trillion in expected AI spending by 2030 versus roughly $100 billion to $200 billion in current gross revenue; even $500 billion in profit would represent only a 10% return.

“The problem is for those who are piling their money into the investment in data centers into microchips into anything related to artificial intelligence a lot of this is built…”—

AI Pricing Pressure — Thompson argues that intense competition among AI companies will compress pricing and weaken the economics of the most expensive models. He expects businesses to favor specialized AI services that perform specific tasks at lower cost rather than pay for broad, premium capabilities.

“First of all, there's huge competition in the AI space…”—

ECONOMY

Rising Yields — The U.S. 30-year Treasury yield reached 5.41%, while global bond yields stood at their highest levels in roughly five years or longer. Thompson links the rising refinancing burden to a U.S. deficit of about $2 trillion per year, higher debt relative to GDP, and rapidly rising interest costs.

“5 point Click it up. Yeah, 5.41. you can see on the chart there, it's literally the highest in many years.”—

MARKETS

Franco-German Spread — France’s 30-year yield was 5.2%, compared with 3.845% for Germany, despite both countries sharing the euro. Thompson attributes the spread to France’s budget problems, including a deficit expected to exceed its 5% target, and investor concerns about French credit risk.

“France France is a special case. They've got a real budget problem. the deficit which they tried to achieve this year of 5% is going to be overshot.”—

Equity Valuation Risk — Elevated equity valuations increase the possibility of a market decline, although high prices alone do not cause crashes. Thompson also argues that government borrowing can channel savings into equities, allowing an overvalued market to keep rising despite elevated risks.

“Equities don't necessarily crash because they're high, but they tend to crash at times when equities when prices when the valuations are high…”—

Custody Risk — Thompson argues that assets held by banks, insurers, or governments expose owners to decisions such as taxation, confiscation, or forced sales. He cites Russian shares that were forcibly sold for 30% of market value and contrasts that outcome with physical gold or other assets directly controlled by the owner.

“So you never know if you have assets held by a third party custodian…”—

FORECASTS

Valuation Outlook — The U.S. market is trading at roughly 27 times earnings, above normalized historical ratios of 17–18 times or about 16 times over a longer period. Thompson says this implies lower future returns, but notes that an overvalued market can still rise substantially in the near term, as the Nasdaq did after the 1996 irrational-exuberance episode.

“they're not at the extreme levels we saw in 1999, but they are unusually high…”—

Gold Upside — Thompson expects rising bond yields could eventually prompt the Federal Reserve to buy government bonds and expand the money supply. In his view, that would be perceived as inflationary and could direct capital into gold and silver as inflation hedges.

“When government bond yields get to a certain level the Federal Reserve can step in ought to step in probably will step in to buy government bonds to keep the…”—

Debt Crisis Timing — Thompson argues that governments can postpone but not eliminate a debt crisis when borrowing exceeds their ability to service interest. He says the timing could range from this year to decades from now and warns that a confidence crisis could threaten cash, bonds, and other assets denominated in fiat currencies.

“The aim of every government is to push this can down the road and hope that the problem never arrives…”—

Introduction

The host welcomes Clive Thompson, who immediately frames the discussion around expensive U.S. equities, lower prospective returns, rising bond yields, and the possibility that money shifts toward bonds and precious metals.

Overview of the economy and markets?

Thompson argues that elevated global bond yields are worsening government financing conditions, with U.S. deficits, refinancing costs, and debt growth creating pressure for Treasury or Federal Reserve intervention.

Bond market intervention

He surveys rising long-term yields across major economies and highlights France's fiscal problems, widening spreads versus Germany, and growing concerns about sovereign credit and the euro's long-term durability.

Way out of the crisis?

Thompson sees no painless escape from excessive debt, listing financial repression, currency replacement, capital controls, inflation, or eventual crisis as possible outcomes that threaten cash and fiat-denominated bonds.

Impact on markets

He says expensive equities could still rise because government borrowing channels savings into markets, but expects U.S. stocks eventually to stabilize as investors seek gold, silver, and other inflation hedges.

Central banks buying gold

Thompson argues that narrow leadership in U.S. indexes masks weak market breadth, while eventual Federal Reserve bond purchases and renewed quantitative easing could support gold and silver.

Lost control of bond market?

Central-bank gold buying, especially China's purchases, may continue because China's gold holdings remain low relative to other countries, although an anticipated U.S. rate hike could temporarily pressure precious metals.

Gold overview

Thompson says policymakers have limited options as bond yields rise, warning that emergency-looking actions could trigger a confidence crisis and that Britain's gilt market may face a sovereign-credit event first.

Bullish parts of the market?

He favors holding some physical assets directly rather than relying entirely on custodians, citing historical bail-ins and confiscations while presenting personally controlled precious metals as a form of optionality.

Energy

Thompson views gold's recent decline as potentially forming a saucer-shaped base, expects sideways trading before a possible year-end recovery, and believes the broader bull market could persist amid monetary-system changes.

AI bubble?

He rejects a conventional 60/40 allocation in favor of more gold and shorter-duration bonds, while discussing low-strike reverse convertibles as a way to earn income if equities move sideways.

One message to takeaway?

Energy and copper prices signal supply and infrastructure pressures, while Thompson warns that AI investment may disappoint because competition, falling prices, and more than $5 trillion of expected spending could overwhelm future profits.

Related Episodes

Important Disclaimers

Not Investment Advice: For education only — not financial, tax or legal advice.

AI-Generated: Made by AI from source transcripts and may contain errors.

No Guarantees: Past performance does not predict future results; investing carries risk.

Our Commentary · Request Removal